"But what's the point in doing something 'amazing', as you call it?"
"Well there are lots of reasons. To become rich, for instance.. But more importantly, I guess, is knowing that people will remember you."
"Ok, the rich part I understand," the second man conceded, "but, what does it matter if people remember you or not? I mean, you won't know either way."
The first man grinned and quietly chuckled, looked down briefly, and then back at the second man; "It's the knowledge that I have now, while I am here, that I will be remembered and remembered well."
"But still, you will never know -- because you'll be dead -- and never experience any happiness or sadness related to that because you won't feel anything or indeed know anything when you're dead. So, what's the point?"
"Well," the first man started again, "as I said, it would make me happy now to know that, after I'm gone, people will think well of me."
"You still don't understand," the first man said in exasperation. "You're not answering why that would make you happy now. There are two parts. The first part, that you have answered, is that some future event will make you happy. For example, I may feel happiness now if I have a winning lottery ticket. But why does that make me happy? Because of the second part. In the future, that lottery ticket will be exchanged for money and I will be rich and I will be happy. You say that knowing you'll be remembered well is what's making you happy now. But why is that making you happy now? You don't have the second part; you won't be happy at that future point when you are remembered well because you won't be able to feel."
The first man paused at this, but was still clearly not swayed in the other man's thinking. He thought for another moment and then rhetorically asked: "Ok, why does a person make a will? A man draws up a will because he wants power over what happens with his possessions when he dies. This is no different from wanting power over your intangible possessions when you die, which includes how one is remembered."
"I'm afraid all you've done there is found an alike situation. You have not answered the heart of the question which is, again, and extended to your will example, why do you -- and why might anyone for that matter -- care what happens if you are not there to witness it, feel it, or experience any effect whatsoever from it?
I think that we both agree that after one's death, you no longer have any sentiment. That is, you do not feel happiness or sadness or regret, etc. So, why does one even leave anything at all? You are out of the picture entirely and all outcomes from that point on have zero effect on you whatsoever. So, why is having that power important?"
"Yes, I agree that after one's death a man cannot and will not experience any emotions. But thank you for raising that because I believe it helps me to explain my viewpoint. One generally makes a will and plans his estate because you are making the choices now that will help the people you care about once you are gone. If you made a different choice now, then you are consciously doing things to hurt those people, and you feel -- and they feel -- those actions over a course of time. Some are now, and some happen later. Going back to the original issue, of being well-remembered, there is a parallel. Every decision we make has repercussions that fan out and extend forward in time. Sometimes they are immediate, and more commonly they play out over time, possibly even infinitely. For the particular example of being remembered well, that happiness that one feels of being well-remembered can be equated with the choices of either hurting or helping those you care about. If you care for someone now, a decision you make now will affect that person in different ways and at different times. And since you are choosing, you will prefer to help them. If you make the converse decision, one that would have the effect of hurting someone, everything connected to that choice will start to be felt upon you at the moment you make it."
"Ok, that makes sense," agreed the other man. "But, what if you change your mind? What if that person does something that changes the way you feel towards them?"
"Well, you said yourself that once you're gone, you're gone, and you can therefore no longer have any interests."
"Right, so why do some people include fulfillment-like clauses in their wills? For instance, I leave my grandson a home, but only once he has graduated medical school."
"That's just another example of making a choice with a long-tailed trajectory. I feel that it would be best for my grandson to become a doctor, as I enjoy it so much and it seems to me one of the best ways to make a noble living, and so I could either do something now to encourage that, or not.
I think that generally people don't think about the fact that their wants are no longer important after their death, but there is a reason that they can and should make decisions that will have implications beyond what they would ever feel.
To say the opposite would be to deny the existence of selflessness."
"Ok. But I do deny it."
"You what?" the man asked incredulously.
"Every man and woman behaves in all acts out of purely selfish reasoning."
"You cannot possibly think that!"
"But how could you be sure of the opposite?"
"Any parent giving up economic and social freedom for their child."
"A parent has a strong interest in the success of their child to ensure that their genes are passed on."
"So now we're arguing from an evolutionary psychology angle?"
"We can argue from any angle you'd like, but I don't believe in such a thing as selflessness."
"Take this: during World War 2 it was proposed to train dogs to go ahead of the soldiers in minefields to ensure that the path was clear of mines. Not a single soldier agreed to the idea and that was done out of selfless care for the animals."
"Not true. There could have been a number of other factors at play. But most importantly, the soldiers did not want to see, or even know about, dogs dying for their benefit. Pay close attention: it was the soldiers that didn't want that to happen. That is making a decision purely out of self interest. That is the default, selfish behavior of which I speak."
"So you don't believe that any decision can be rooted selflessly? Or you don't believe that any decision is, though it could be."
"I don't believe that any decision could possibly be rooted in anything else than selfishness. Would you help your friend to succeed? Of course, but only if you wanted your friend to succeed. Etc."
"But I think what's important is why you want your friend to succeed. The selfish/selfless question comes at the origins of what outcomes lead to your utility and happiness."
"Well now you're talking like an economist!"
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